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Patri Andari
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118
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Posted - 2013.12.05 02:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
High sec POS has many requirements that force players to grind standings and maintain the structure not only with fuel but starbase charters (taxes to the sov NPC). It offers little to no passive income, but can field passive defense. If you want to derive income from others they must join your (research) alliance but can not partake in all the beneifits, namely invention. Also there is a limit to how high security a POS can be erected
High sec POCO requires you place a structure and rates after blowing up an NPC.Ther is no passive defense, BUT anyone can use it (regardless of relationship like joining an alliance) and provide you with unlimited passive income. There is no fuel cost .... NO FUEL COST...and no need to even buy starbase charters. In fact ALL taxes to the sov. NPC are paid by users As far as I know, with this last expansion, they can be erected in any high sec system regardless security. NO STANDINGS GRIND REQUIRED!
Should not there be:
1. A requirement of standings with SOV NPC faction to erect a high sec POCO? 2. A requirement to pay taxes (charters) to the SOV NPC? 3. Some form of maintenance costs (fuel) for their use?
I like the idea of players owning these entities but it makes little sense to introduce them this way while POS owners have such heavy burdens with such limited rewards
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.05 02:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jill Chastot wrote:Shooting Structures is not fun. Doing missions suck.
Why do you hate people that just want to see the universe burn?
Can I put you down as one who would support removal of the standings, starbase charters, and fuel costs requirements for POS?
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.05 04:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
The funtionality of a POCO is quite different from a POS I agree. To overstate the differences is disingenuous though.. It is a structure erected (in this case) for a corporation in high security space for (primarily) the generation of corporation assets.
Until now, this has gone hand in hand with the requirement for standings and taxes. I am all for a system that does away with this for a high sec POCO, but I have seen no reason why high security POS should still require greater effort.
Would be interesting to hear anyone argue why their is a need for disparate treatment, I woulld welcome such a well thought and reasoned arguement.
Up til now it seems like the only view is " they are different cause..."
POCO as they are stand to be the most passive income in the game.
Remember datacore nerf?
What is the justification for a high sec structure that requires no maintenance at all and no standings to erect yet can generate unlimited passive income? Please do not tell me the fact it must be defended is all.
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.05 04:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tippia wrote:1.
They're not POSes; they share none of the mechanics or functions of POSes; they have a completely different purpose than POSes. They're to POSes what star gates are to stations: just because both hang around in space and can be docked with doesn't mean they are supposed to work the same in any way.
Two completely different things working completely differently doesn't in any way GÇ£break the game".
Completely different?
Overstate much?
Are not they both structures that (in this case) are anchored in NPC sov space. (same)
Are not they both intended to (primarily) generate profit from other capsuleers. (same)
You have been around long enough to know that POS owners have been begging for a way to open their research slots to the general public for profit. Of course you also know game mechanics do not allow this, (yet*) but if they did certainly those people selling high sec corporations and the current owners of high sec POS would have a more seasoned claim to such passive income than those who never had to worry much about standings and fuel.
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.05 04:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Patri Andari wrote:Please do not tell me the fact it must be defended is all.
This would be a considerable expense, if not for the fact that high sec is primarily populated by players like you.
Gratz to Space Llama Industries on their new null sec holdings.
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.05 04:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:I think Goons POCO'ed OPs factory planet. 
Sorry m8 I do not PI
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.05 04:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malak Alraheem wrote:
Your argument is missing the rest of the story. By your logic there should also be standings needed to even do PI on planets as well as the need to fuel the command centers. How dare any player be allowed to even set up on a planet and tinker with PI before they have done endless grinding, paid charters, and bought fuel?
I see where you are going, but I also see that setting up PI on a planet requires ongoing taxes be paid to the NPC. No? Why not also have ongoing taxes (at leaset) be required to operate a POCO?
Malak Alraheem wrote:
Please give it a rest. It is a different game mechanic and it works just fine. Unlike the datacore issue (which is still free money BTW, they just taxed it basically) this is somethings that someone CAN take away from you if they want to. However, in most cases, the cost of doing so isn't going to give you a worthwhile return on your investment in the near term. There isn't a lot of isk to come from most of the high-sec planets, they are a limited resource and a competitive market.
Please explain how this any different from a high sec POS strategically located in high sec?
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.05 05:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Patri Andari wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:I think Goons POCO'ed OPs factory planet.  Sorry m8 I do not PI That is blatantly obvious because if you actually did PI, you'd recognise that the RVBee POCOs have lower taxrates than the NPC ones they replaced.
I know that m8 and that you for sharing the knowledge. This goes to show that the discussion has nothing to do with the rates charged at all. The issue is the passive income generated from a high security ( NPC space) structure with no requirement for standings or taxation to the owner.
Even if said taxes and standings were minimal they should be required. If not, why still need them for POS?
Mind you, I would not purely object to removing those requirements for POS, but I think there is a need for some equity here.
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.05 05:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:As has been suggested in the last three threads like this: you are correct, they should get rid of the standing requirements for hisec POS as well.
Thank you for furthering this point. Hopefully CCP will realize this oversight, and further reduce boring standings grinds as a barrier to fun.
Varius, I apologize for not checking to see if this has been brought up before. I hate rehashing old arguments. I simply thought about the mechanic recently, saw the issue in my mind and posted my thoughts.
Hope the community will forgive me for not doing due diligence and searching.
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.06 01:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Tippia, I think if you look between the lines the OP really doesn't care about POCO's, and doesn't do PI related activities at all. As always, I point to Poe's law.  Sure, POSes could certainly have their highsec idiocy level reduced and the standings grind could certainly do with a good shotgunning behind the shed, but there are enough people who genuinely believe the nonsense the OP puts forth so it's worth responding to.
It is one thing to say "I do not agree" , but what do you attribute my opinion as "nonsense"?
Seems a bridge too far even for you.
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.06 01:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Malak Alraheem wrote:Actually there is a way to anchor a POS without the player having to do a standings grind. You just hire someone that already has the standings to build/run your corp for a week and then you have a week to put up all the towers you want.
I am still trying to see where this is breaking the game as the OP is claiming. Both systems are based on established game mechanics, similar yet different. The game mechanic for the high sec POCO is the taxation by the NPCs and the fact that the resources on the planets are fairly poor. The game mechanic for the high-sec POS is the need for standings (trivial, it really is) and the need for charters (also trivial). Otherwise there is no difference in play between high-sec and the other regions of space.
I like this train of thought because it has a rationale. Let's say I agree that the requirements are trivial. should not they be consistent?
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.06 01:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Being in hisec only means that unsanctioned aggression comes at a greater cost than elsewhere. Minimizing player control has never been a guideline for hisec, nor should it be.
Even if they introduced standings requirements for setting up POCOs, ours are already set up and any new ones would simply be anchored under a corp with the appropriate standings. This wouldn't be a challenge at all.
I can therefore list you as in agreement to my view?
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
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Posted - 2013.12.06 01:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Patri Andari wrote:Completely different? Overstate much? Not really, no. POCOs have more in common with a Dominix than they have with POSes (and the commonalities there are very small). So them not following the same rules as POSes makes at least as much sense as Dominixes not following those rules either. As others have pointed out, the best solution would be to remove most of the restrictions on POSes GÇö pointlessly applying those restrictions on something that's meant to highly unrestricted would be a move in the wrong direction and doesn't make any sense to begin with. So again, two completely different things working completely differently does not break the game.
I have to say that you have done better work. As one of the game's better trolls, at least give a full quote before you digress.
POS and POCOS are structures erected in space. How is either like a space potato?
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 01:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Patri Andari wrote: How is either like a space potato?
Her point is you are trying to compare an apple to an orange, HTH. Someone who uses logic and reason to rip apart your statements does not make them a troll.
You seem well intended but misinformed.
He misquoted me and then used "reason and logic" to rip a fallacy.
Please do not feed the troll.
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
118
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 02:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:You seem to have the bar set pretty low as to when a game is "broken".
Smohq,
I think high security space has requirements that pre date many aspects of this game. I also think the "standings grind" fit in that scope.
Jump clones, agent access, taxes, and a few other things are a part of that system. When something comes along to change that I think it breaks many aspects of the game. Is that a low bar?
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
119
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 03:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Gah. Haven't I repeated myself enough times so that you know that PI in high-sec isn't worth the clicks it takes.
Sure its free isk, but miners make 1000% more mining veldspar a month. Its not worth the time hauling the goods to Jita.
What? 100 million a month per account. That's chump change.
I am not tolally sure I follow your comments Captain or that you follow this thread, but thanks
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
120
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Posted - 2013.12.07 01:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:Hey guys I have zero knowledge of the mechanic in question but I believe its broken because...things...
*logic enters*
Hey guys I still have zero knowledge but....but....
Face it, tippia just handed you your arse on a plate.
Renfield? Is that you?
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |
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